A Couple Of Questions For You
Posted on | September 3, 2009 | 21 Comments
Pop on over to Grough and read the following story “Lomond bosses move to ban troublesome wild-campers”.
Apart from the fact I don’t think that the folks they are having a problem with are wild campers, I have a question or two for you all.
Question 1) When you read something like this who would you also expect to see commenting on this to the press?
Question 2) Should the people/organisations suggested in your previous answers be talking to the National Park Authorities about this?
I really want lots of people to give their opinion on this, so please please, even pretty please leave your answers on this post as a comment.
Who knows there may even be a MBD Uno stove in it for one lucky commenter.
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21 Responses to “A Couple Of Questions For You”
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September 3rd, 2009 @ 6:33 pm
1. you could pick any of the usual suspects; MCofS, Ramblers, etc.
2. Why? is it their problem? answer; No.
It’s the NPA, local government, police’s problem.
The reason being is that the people causing the problem are not real wild campers; its probably local chavs/neds (whatever they are called in that part of the country) out for a boozed up night of fun.
This conversation has been had before, people who camp in a lay-by are not wild campers. It the same with the people using the wild camping grounds on the lower parts of the WHW, I have stayed on a couple of them and most of the tents there were £29,99 specials from lidl and aldi, with the big cooler box filled with beer.
Although not a wild camp; this is what happens when big groups converge on sites Roller
It’s anti-social behaviour and probably happens at a lot of places around the country; this is the first to be highlighted.
The NPA are doing it for a reason; 247 million of them.
September 3rd, 2009 @ 7:41 pm
I was going to say the same people that George did, plus Cameron McNeish.
In this case, I’m glad they’re not wading into the issue, noisily championing the right to camp wild in Scotland. Our outdoor access code requests a responsible attitude from landowners and those who enjoy the outdoors.
As someone who lives close to Loch Lomond and often visits the areas where camping is to be banned, the campers are definitely not upholding their side of the bargain. Many parts of the beautiful east side of the loch especially are in a disgusting state. It’s not in the spirit of the law and I would support the ban.
I don’t fear that the ban will creep. I think it’s justifiably targeted to stop a few people ruining countryside that’s enjoyed by many.
Scotland has sensible (advanced even) access laws which – on the whole – work well. But only if both sides act responsibly. Nothing should be taken for granted.
September 3rd, 2009 @ 10:02 pm
Real Wild Campers in my opinion there too do not cause much of a problem to anyone. Real wild campers tend to love and value the outdoors so much that they will not leave trash and garbage and human waste and toilet paper or beer bottles strewn all over it! We by and large tend to leave no trace, instinctively.
September 3rd, 2009 @ 10:06 pm
By the way, I think it is everyone’s responsibility to keeping wild places wild and rubbish free. Otherwise it is just passing the buck, it is the responsibility of anyone who loves the outdoors, who represents the outdoors or outdoors interests, as well as volunteers and too the police and park authorities. No question, we are all in this together. We all have a voice, let us use it.
September 3rd, 2009 @ 11:47 pm
The MCoS is certainly not going to defend these campers. We have argued before that roadside camping is not wild camping and is not covered by the access legislation.
September 4th, 2009 @ 7:35 am
That’s good to hear, Chris.
September 4th, 2009 @ 7:50 am
Very interesting comments so far.
Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying that which ever organisation you mention would be defending the campers making this problem. I think they should be on there defending the term wild camping, and as CT pointed out saying what they are doing is not wild camping.
Now I don’t want to be seen directing the conversation, and shaping peoples responses. But I find the responses so far very very interesting in who they omit as well.
September 4th, 2009 @ 8:37 am
When you first posed the question Darren I thought you were hoping The Backpackers Club would be one of the organisations mentioned. That club already has representatives in those mentioned ie CT & C. McN are both senoir members and office bearers of TBC as you know. They also have a better knowledge of the Scottish Access Law than others within The Backpackers Club myself included. The more fingers in the pie the more potential for wrong interpetation of wild camping with regard to Scottish Law. Last Oct I walked along the Loch Arkaig road and it was then a mess with fire rings and beer can / bottle full black rubbish bags left at roadside by I’m sure vehicle based supposed wild campers. My understanding of The Scottish Access Law is that none have the right to wild camp beside a public road or within sight of a building. I know some who have been very inventive or should I say sight impaired in their interpetation of within sight of and I suspect / know were not wild camping in the spirit of the Law as it applies in Scotland. I also remember seeing CT on TV some time back about this very problem in Glen Cluaine near Braemar so it is not only in the mentioned National Park the problem exists but throughout Scotland at any easily accessed and popular location.
Ian Shiel
September 4th, 2009 @ 1:30 pm
The problem with ‘wild campers’ and topics like this is that they come and go without much of a trace. Its the minority that are loud, destructive, drunk and obnoxious. Unfortunately they become the perceived majority because they are so easily noticed and remembered. The solution is simple but tedious:
1. Continue to represent the ethic well by behaving responsibly and taking time to talk to people when they are interested. That can be tough for some of us as hikers tend to be introverts.
2. Get your organizations in touch with the parks & the press. Organize trail maintenance days and make sure you get it in the papers. Try to overcome the actions of the boisterous few!
September 4th, 2009 @ 5:16 pm
To be fair; TBC is probably a long way down the list (if even on it) for a sound bite, and even if approached it would probably CT or CMcN. Plus I don’t think they would be introduced a being part of TBC.
TBC is a very small fish in the pond.
September 5th, 2009 @ 6:41 pm
After reading that, it may be that a ban in the worst affected areas is the only way that the problem can be stopped. I think it is unlikely that the perpetrators are the type who would then move further into the hills to continue their anti social behaviour. All that booze would be too heavy for them to venture far from their cars. If it takes a ban to restore the shores of Loch Lomond and similar places to a reasonably clean and litter-free state, then that’s what it takes. It’s difficult to see how a ban could not be justified in some areas.
September 6th, 2009 @ 4:05 pm
It’s not the ban I disagree with. It’s the muddying of the name wild camping/campers. It seems no one is correcting the organisations, and the press. Do we really want to see people associate what we do with this? I would say no. So we should be combating the negative conitation that is being associated with wild camping. We have already lost backpacking, lets not lose this one as well.
September 7th, 2009 @ 1:12 pm
I recently saw some car campers in the trees next to the carpark for the start of the Corn Du / Pen y Fan walk in the Brecons. Kind of obvious in their blue, cheapo car camping tents. Signs of BBQs too. Although not legal they did show some degree of good practice in that it was not obvious from the road, carpark or hill.
Personally I agree with the ban and perhaps the enlightening of their wallets with the hopefully enlightening of their minds through loss of money. Although I do think most of the general public would not be so stupid as to associate what we do with those that park up, pitch up and booze up. Also if you are worrying about what people think about wildcamping/wildcampers then you need to get out there more. I mean you hardly going to think about peoples opinions when you are out in the environment up there in the hills. You shouldn’t let ignorant perceptions bother you. Wild camping is not damaged by this but enhanced in that bad practice is being stopped and stopped in a public manner (with a ban in a well known area of Scotland). Organisations don’t need to get involved as it is not an issue for them, but it is one for the authorities to to step in. There are laws in place for access and laws for anti-social behaviour. I am sure there are local byelaws too that are transgressed by these people. Also note there are resposible car campers who park up late and pitch then leave early. I am sure there are many of you who have parked up for the night by the side of the road having travelled hundreds of miles after work on a Friday to spend a couple of days in Scotland.
BTW I don’t understand your comment about losing backpacking.
September 7th, 2009 @ 7:54 pm
Maybe that the term backpacker and backpacking is these days used mostly to describe gap year world travellers and such like, rather than hikers here.
September 8th, 2009 @ 12:02 pm
I just see the two as two different forms of the same thing and that is moving from place to place with what you need on your back. One only needs clothes and a few bits and pieces, the other needs shelter as well. Both just ends of the same string IMO.
September 8th, 2009 @ 5:06 pm
Ahhh, but how long is that particular piece of string?
September 9th, 2009 @ 11:17 am
Trev – How long is a piece of string? An old question that has many answers depending on peoples’ viewpoint. I just think the backpacking string is not that long and has a sheepshank tied in it too. ;-D
September 10th, 2009 @ 2:54 pm
great comments guys, keep the discussion up.
September 13th, 2009 @ 6:59 pm
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September 28th, 2009 @ 4:14 pm
This was mentioned 2 years ago on the BBC’s “Landward” and a sister radio show.
http://aktoman.blogspot.com/2007/06/wild-camping-thoughts.html
I assume that nothing has improved in 2 years then. Shame, as there are laws to deal with these vandals.
And it still looks like the case that the media use the term “wild camping” erroneously.
As to education – I saw last year that tents were being sold in Aberdeen with a “leave no trace” info-sheet. I thought that this was great.
February 8th, 2010 @ 1:48 pm
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